Infant Baptism
2 Jun 2009 Download article in PDF formatA question-and-answer style understanding of Biblical baptism.
In the course of 19 to-the-point questions and answers, the issue concerning Infant and Believer's Baptisms is clarified and brought into sharp focus.
A love letter to those who have been "baptized" as babies,
and to parents who have had their babies "baptized".
I have grown up in a Christian home, and have been baptized as a baby.
I got saved at age 12, and to this day (I am in my mid-forties) have never smoked one cigarette, have never been drunk, have never done drugs, married my wife as a virgin in 1989, attended church twice a week, sang in the church choir and was the youngest elder on the Church Board (I was 26) and the first missionary ever from my congregation.
Model Christian, eh?
My church didn't think so. I got disciplined in the same church in 1994.
Why?
Because my wife and I got ourselves baptized by Believer's Baptism in 1993.
Which resulted in me and my family plodding along for another year in that church. We were not allowed to apply our respective spiritual giftings in the congregation (which was the measure of the discipline). I had to resign from the Church Board, and my wife had to stop reading stories to the 3-year olds during Sunday School. We were forced to become passive Christians. Which caused us to leave after another year.
In retrospect (after more than 12 years), that was the best thing that could have happened to us at the time. This resulted in us being exposed to such a wide spectrum of God's facets that we have learned more in the past 12 years than in the previous 33 of our lives in that church!
As far as I can know, I have worked through the whole issue emotionally, and have thoroughly forgiven whoever needed forgiveness in the Name of Jesus.
The reason why you are reading this article is most probably because you wrestle with the very same questions that I did at the time.
I will try to answer those questions as clearly as possible, and to be as direct as possible. If some holy cows come into the line of fire, it is not because I hate my former church, am in need revenge or have a judgmental attitude.
I have received SO many inquiries about this single issue in the past number of years that I realized that only clear, direct answers would supply in the craving for the truth of literally hundreds (if not thousands) of believers.
So here goes:
1. If I have been baptized as an infant, why is there any need for Believer's Baptism?
Because Infant Baptism is no baptism.
It is a custom which pagans had carried into the Roman Catholic Church 17 centuries ago. Constantine the Great (Emperor of Rome) then declared Christianity to be the State Religion. Every Roman citizen had to become a Christian. Paganism was outlawed, pagan temples were shut down, and the pagans were absorbed into the Roman Church. And these brought along their pagan views and customs, which soon infiltrated the State Church - the birth of the Roman Catholic Church.
At the Reformation of the 1500's, Protestants (followers of Martin Luther) took over this custom from the Roman Catholic Church without changing it, and later developed doctrines to justify it. These doctrines are among those which are today known as "Covenant Theology".
Thus, you have never been baptized. You have been subjected to a pagan ritual without your consent.
2. But surely my Church leaders would know if it were a pagan ritual. They would never allow that!
Depending on your Church affiliation, that's not the only pagan custom that your Church leaders might be ignorant of. Are you aware that most other "Church calendar events", such as Christmas, Easter, Lent, Valentine's Day and Halloween are also pagan customs which had been fed into the Church?
This might shock you! And you're not the only one. I was shocked too, when I found out the first time, and checked the facts! It took me a long time to work through this emotionally.
Pastors and dominees simply echo from pulpits what they learn in Bible School or Seminary. I have never seen a graduate leaving a Reformed Seminary convinced of Baptist doctrines; and conversely, I've never seen a graduate leaving a Baptist Bible School convinced of Reformed doctrines.
Whatever a pastor or dominee is convinced of after his studies is not a function of TRUTH. Rather, it is a function of INDOCTRINATION. Both sides use the same Bible to justify their respective viewpoints.
Whatever pastors and dominees believe, is not a function of TRUTH. It is simply a function of WHICH INSTITUTION they opt to attend for their studies - even long before they believe the stuff on which they would later be prepared to bet their heads on.
3. But can't the two camps just live together? Can't those who want to baptise babies just have Infant Baptism, and those who want to baptize believers just have Believer's Baptism?
No, they cannot.
Simply because the two viewpoints are irreconcilable. And there cannot be two baptisms. The Bible speaks of only one:
There is one body and one Spirit
- just as you were called to one hope when you were called -
one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
(Eph. 4:4 - 5)
4. So who is right? Both camps justify their viewpoints from the same Bible!
Believer's Baptism is the Biblical one.
To explain this, we will have to choose between two strategies:
1. The doctrinal avenue.
2. The symbolical avenue.
1. The doctrinal avenue:
This is the avenue which gets utilized in Bible Schools and Seminaries.
It is also the avenue which has been debated back and forth a zillion times before, and has not convinced either of the camps. And after several centuries of debate, I believe we have exhausted those doctrinal arguments. It seems like the doctrinal avenue simply does not possess the capacity to convince, let alone convict.
We will not waste our efforts here.
2. The symbolical avenue:
Experience has taught me personally that this avenue, of all avenues, by far displays the Biblical outcome the clearest.
We will explore this one:
In order to comprehend the strategy of gaining understanding of the baptism issue, please consider the following:
The entire Infant Baptism doctrine rests wholly on one doctrinal pillar:
That baptism is a seal of the Abrahamic Covenant.
For the sake of brevity, we will not attempt here to explain WHY this is so. Suffice to say that any person who would be included in the Abrahamic Covenant (the covenant which God made with Abraham - Gen. 15; 17) would be saved. This is Covenant Theology.
Therefore: If we could prove that baptism is NOT the seal of ANY covenant, it would mean that the whole Infant Baptism doctrine would implode on itself.
Ready?
Here goes:
Let us consider the major covenants of Scripture:
1. God's Marriage Covenant. Gen. 2:24.
2. God's covenant with Noah. Gen. 8:20 - 21; 9:12 - 16.
3. God's covenant(s) with Abraham (the "old" covenant). Gen.15; 17.
4. Holy Communion (the "new" covenant). Jer. 31:33; Mat. 26:26 - 28.
ALL these covenants were sealed by BLOOD and FLESH:
1. In the Marriage Covenant, husband and wife become ONE FLESH. In the consummation of the marriage covenant, the wife would bleed as her husband's flesh penetrated her body.
2. At God's covenant with Noah, Noah sacrificed some clean animals. Flesh and blood.
3. At God's covenant with Abram, he had to divide an animal in two. Flesh and blood. At God's covenant with Abraham, he had to circumcised. Flesh and blood.
4. During Holy Communion, we celebrate the content of the new covenant of God with His people with bread (symbol of flesh) and wine (symbol of blood).
We therefore see that when God cuts a covenant, He does so with BLOOD and FLESH as the seal of that covenant.
(The only exception is the so-called SALT covenant - which is something entirely different. We won't go into that in the scope of this article).
The important aspect to note here, is:
THERE IS NOT ONE BIBLICAL INSTANCE WHERE GOD CUTS A COVENANT AND SEALS IT WITH WATER!
Hence, Scripture makes it abundantly clear:
GOD DOES NOT CONSIDER BAPTISM TO BE THE SEAL OF ANY COVENANT!
The baptismal water seal is the giveaway!
And this is the very point at which Infant Baptism doctrine implodes onto itself. It simply falls apart. Disintegrates.
Baptism is not the SEAL of any covenant. Rather, its function could be viewed as the same as that of Noah's flood, or the Red Sea. More on this later.
The only Biblical baptism is Believer's Baptism.
It gets administered unto BELIEVERS - whichever age they might be, but certainly not babies. Babies cannot believe during babyhood.
Believer's Baptism is baptism by immersion, not by sprinkling. This is not a mere technical issue. There's a good reason why.
5. But Believer's Baptism is also done by means of water! Isn't that occultic as well?
No.
Infant baptism is occultic because, doctrinally, it is believed to constitute a covenant. And only occultists cut covenants by means of water.
Believer's Baptism is NEVER proclaimed to constitute a covenant. Rather, it constitutes a burial and resurrection (see point 7 above). So, since Believer's Baptism does not constitute a covenant, there couldn't be any problem using water during such baptism.
6. So is Covenant Theology all wrong?
No.
The Bible is full of covenants. God is a covenantal God. But baptism plays no part in it.
7. So, if Baptism is no covenant, then what IS it?
Baptism is a sign of (Col. 2:12):
1. Death with Christ (Col. 2:20). Immersion in the water grave symbolizes death and burial. Rom. 6:3 - 4; Mark 10:38.
2. Resurrection with Christ (Col. 3:1). Rising from immersion waters symbolizes new life (birth) or resurrection. John 3:5.
This is the central reason why it should only be administered to believers, and not to babies.
8. So why then does the New Testament compare Baptism to Noah's flood and the Red Sea? (1 Pet. 3:20 - 21; 1 Cor. 10:2).
Because Noah's flood wiped away the sin of the pre-deluvian world. It was God's final judgment of sin.
Because the Red Sea wiped away the slave masters (Egyptians) in hot pursuit of the Israelites. It was God's final judgment of the house of slavery.
Similarly, baptism symbolizes the wiping away of the individual's old, sinful life. It symbolizes God's final judgment of the individual's sin, of his house of slavery.
9. So where does Covenant Theology take the wrong turn?
Covenant Theology confuses Baptism with Holy Communion.
The sign of the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33) is Holy Communion (Mat. 26:26 - 28). Flesh and Blood.
The content of the New Covenant is that God will write His law on our innermost flesh, or on the fleshy tables of our heart. (2 Cor. 3:3) This is sealed by Holy Communion (Flesh and Blood).
Covenant Theology says that circumcision (the seal of the Old Covenant) was replaced by baptism (and hence makes baptism the seal of the New Covenant - in stead of Holy Communion). Hence, strangely, Covenant Theology has TWO seals of the New Covenant in stead of ONE: Baptism and Holy Communion.
10. So, if baptism didn't replace circumcision, then why don't we circumcise male babies any more?
Circumcision was never replaced by anything. Circumcision is alive and well!
The only thing concerning circumcision that changed from the Old to the New Covenant, was that circumcision at the foreskin was replaced by circumcision of the innermost flesh (sometimes called the heart). Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; Rom. 2:29.
11. How can someone's HEART be circumcised?
God calls the process whereby He writes His law on someone's innermost flesh "circumcision of the heart". Col. 2:11; 2 Cor. 3:3.
In the scientific world, indications are that this "writing" of God's law on the fleshy tables of a believer's heart might well involve a re-coding of his "junk" DNA - the non-genetic part of the DNA helix. Which might well give rise to a radical change in behaviour.
12. WHEN does this "writing" take place?
Scripture is unambiguously clear on this (Col. 2:11 - 12):
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism,
wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God,
who hath raised him from the dead.
This is THE ONLY instance where the New Covenant and Baptism meet one another directly.
Circumcision was never replaced by anything. It is alive and well. Circumcision of the heart, until this day, occurs AT BAPTISM.
AT BAPTISM God, by His Holy Spirit, according to an individual's faith, writes his law on our innermost flesh - most probably on our DNA. Which causes a radical change in behaviour - a behaviour according to God's law!
Praise the Lord!
13. So if a person has never been baptized by believer's baptism - what would be the consequences?
Metaphorically:
He might have left the days of Noah, but the giants might not be dead.
He might have left Egypt, but Pharaoh might still be after him.
He might have accepted Jesus, but might fight ever-losing battles against sin.
He might have survived the giants, but might never be born into the post-deluvian world.
He might have left Egypt, but might never have taken possession of Canaan.
He might have left his old life, but was never reborn into a new life.
14. What should such a person do?
1. Get yourself baptized by immersion as a believer!
2. Renounce your Infant Baptism in the Name of Jesus!
15. Why should I renounce my Infant Baptism?
This is VERY important!
Whereas the water ritual of Infant Baptism does not represent a Biblical covenant, it does represent an occultic covenant.
Whereas NO Biblical covenant is ever sealed by water, occultists make water covenants most often!
A covenant forges THE STRONGEST imaginable spiritual link between any two parties. It could be equated to a spiritual contract.
Hence:
If you have been Infant Baptized, and have taken Communion as well, it would mean that you have made a spiritual contract not only with Jesus Christ, but also with some or other demonic entity. Which demonic entity this would be, would depend on the denomination that baptized you. Research shows, though, that in most cases this entity is the Queen of Heaven, also known as the Whore of Babylon or the Woman riding the Beast (see my DVD series on The Queen of Heaven).
You need to get rid of this spiritual contract as soon as possible! Or carry on suffering the consequences.
16. How can I get out of a spiritual contract that was made on my behalf by my parents?
Don't blame your parents. Forgive them. They meant well, although in ignorance.
There are a number of ways to get out of a legal contract:
1. Both parties might want to get out of the contract, agree and tear up both copies of its contents, and forget about it.
2. The party who wants to get out, might plead with the other to release him of his obligations.
3. The party who wants to get out, might have a rich friend who could buy him out of the contract.
4. The party who wants to get out, might die.
Options 1 and 2 aren't viable in this case. No demonic entity would willfully give up his rights to a human soul.
Option 3 is viable. We have a rich friend in Jesus. And He has paid for all our mistakes. We can ask Him to buy us out of our contract!
Option 4 is also viable. If the baby who had the contract dies with Jesus Christ, and is buried with Him in baptism, he is released from his obligations!
17. How do I do that?
After you've had yourselves baptized by immersion, pray the following:
Lord Jesus, I repent of the ignorance of my parents who had me baptized by sprinkling of water when I was a baby. I now realize that this was a grave sin before You, and that my Infant Baptism had forged a spiritual covenant and contract between me and a demonic entity. Please forgive me.
Lord Jesus, I accept your forgiveness, because Scripture tells us that if we repent of our sins, You will forgive us. (1 John 1:9)
Therefore, I now proclaim that I have died with Christ in the waters of baptism. Thus, I declare my covenant and spiritual contract with any demonic entity null and void, and renounce it in its entirety. I give back to this entity everything that I have ever received from him, and declare that in all eternity, I never want anything from him again.
I hereby declare a spiritual divorce between myself and this entity - for all time and eternity, in the Name of Jesus.
Lord Jesus, I pray that you will seal this prayer and declaration with your Blood.
Amen.
18. What do I do if I had my children baptized as babies? Can I pray this on their behalf?
If they are still spiritual minors (12 or younger), and you are their spiritual guardian, you may well pray this on their behalf. Also repent of your sin of ignorance of having them baptized as babies.
If they are older than 12, they are responsible before God for their own spiritual affairs. They have to make the decision themselves, and pray their own prayer.
19. Where did pagans get the original idea of baptizing babies?
This goes back in time quite far - back to the fourth generation after Noah's flood!
Research shows the following:
Noah's great-grandson Nimrod was a godless man. He built the city of Babylon and devised a system of religion which led his followers away from God. This religious system became known as "The Mysteries", and is still practiced today by pagans.
After Nimrod's time, the Mysteries developed more and more as time went on. In this religious system, one of the ways by which people would try to get rid of their sin, was by purification by fire.
They would make a high-flaming fire, and jump through the flames repeatedly, believing that each "pass through the fire" would burn away their sins.
And of course, as time went on, they realized that the sooner in his life a person would "get rid of his sins" in this way, the better.
So they started to do this with babies. As soon as a baby's physical body could endure the procedure, they would wrap it tightly in cloth - so as to resemble a rugby ball. Then two grown-ups would position themselves on both sides of a high-flaming fire, and throw the baby through the flames repeatedly, each time catching it on the other side of the fire.
This is what "passing children through the fire for Molech" refers to. (2 Kings 16:3; 23:10; 2 Chron. 33:6; Ezek. 16:21)
At some stages in history, this practice was outlawed by God-fearing authorities - which caused the practitioners of the Mysteries to switch from fire (as an agent of purification) to water (which is also a well-known agent of purification). And voilá! we have baptism of babies - by sprinkling of water.
(See The Two Babylons by Rev. Alexander Hislop)
1.Jesus WAS submerged by John the Baptist. The original Greek word for baptism is "baptizo" which, according to Strongs concordance, means:
a) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
b) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe.
2. My article nowhere makes baptism a prerequisite for salvation. If it did, it would be silly, since I (the author of the article) do not believe that baptism is a prerequisite for salvation.
3. There is NOT ONE explicit example of infant baptism in the Bible, whereas there are several explicit examples of believer's baptism. Even John Calvin (one of the founders of the Reformed doctrine of baptism) had to find the earliest example of infant baptism outside of the Scriptures in the writings of the church father Origen (ca 100 AD - when the early church had already fallen into grave apostasy) - thereby tresspassing one of the foundational slogans of the Reformation itself: "Sola Scriptura" (the Scriptures alone)!
4. Nowhere in the Bible it is required of parents to make promises about their upbringing of their child.
This custom originates with the Roman Catholic Church, who intended this solemn promise to be a lifelong binding of the parents' conciences to herself (else they would break their promise) - thereby ensuring the longevity of the parents' (financial) commitment to the Church of Rome.
Thus this parental promise is not only extra-Biblical, but originally had an unholy, materialistic motive. Which makes it pagan. The continuation of this custom unto this day makes it neither Scriptural, nor holy.
Is daar miskien 'n moontlikheid dat hierdie artikel van jou een of ander tyd in Afrikaans beskikbaar sal wees? Ek het 'n paar stoere NG boere wat ek graag daarmee wil oortuig!
Baie dankie!
marievil@telkomsa.net
To say that child baptism is "pagan" makes me wonder if you are not using your own wisdom instead of hearing God in His Word.
Satan is a deceiver and an imitator of God's Word to bring people into confusion. Case in point!
When the jailer in Acts 16:30 asked how he can be saved, Paul and Silas replied: "believe in the lord Jesus, and you will be saved - YOU AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD." Then he and his family were baptized.
This includes children and slaves - the whole household.
Baptism is such a wonderful gift of new birth into God's family, why cheapen it into a matter of man's understanding.
I will gladly e-mail God's Word on baptism to anyone wishing to experience the joy in knowing who we are in the greater scheme of things. My e-mail address is: edgarlilje@vodamail.co.za
For centuries, this has been held up as a Biblical example of infant baptism by the advocates thereof - even by the intellectual John Calvin.
The fact of the matter is that babies obviously did NOT make a part of this particular household. The advocates of infant baptism, like the advocates of all heresies, simply never mention those parts of Scripture which don't suit their arguments.
Please note that the previous author mentions the content of Acts 16:30, as well as verse 33.
But the obvious key to whether this particular household contained babies or not, lies right under his nose in verse 32 - he couldn't have missed it, going from verse 30 to 33!
Verse 32 reads: "And they [Paul & Silas] spake unto him [the jailer] the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house."
So:
Would any advocate of infant baptism who uses this example as Biblical proof of his argument please demonstrate to me how to "speak the word of the Lord" to a baby? And also, how to speak this word to the baby unto faith - for that was Paul's explicit condition on which one could be saved (verse 31).
And please, thereby I'm NOT saying that baptism is a condition of salvation. What I AM saying, is that FAITH is a condition of BAPTISM.
Please, infant baptism believers, like myself previously, you have been conned. You have been conned out of your birthright as a believer - to have your heart circumcised by Jesus writing His Torah (instruction for life) on your innermost flesh - your DNA. This process is triggered by believer's baptism, and believer's baptism only.
I read your "comment" and really understand how you must feel. The question of what is required to be baptised, is actually answered in the Bible (Q & A stile) to help the believers of today with this issue. Hope this helps you:
Acts 8:36,37,38
Q: And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized????
A: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Out of experiece I know that nobody likes to hear, that what they have been doing for generations were; NOT WHAT THEY WERE TOLD IT TO BE.
'Exept' that you were mislead, 'listen' to the Holy Spririt of God breaking through the fail pulled over your eyes and be 'obedient'!
The propets of God might be killed but God will erect a new one.
Ons moet die fondasie van ons geloof in sy wortel gaan soek. Ons vergeet dat OOK die eerste helfte van die Skrif vir ons gegee is "...nuttig tot lering, tot weerlegging, tot teregwysing, tot onderwysing in die geregtigheid, (2Tim 3:16). Let Wel, die Nuwe Testament het toe nog nie bestaan nie. Paulus kon mense dmv die Ou Testament leer in alles waarvan hy hulle oortuig het! Gaan soek enige lering EERS in die Torah, Profete en ander Skrifte en DAN bevestig jy dit in die Nuwe Verbond (waardeur die wet nou op jou hart geskryf is, vlg Jer 31:33).
Ek glo regtig nie aan enige vorm van doop nie, maar in Jesus Christus my Heiland en Verlosser.
As ek hard genoeg soek sal ek selfs die onderdompeling kan verbind met die aanbidding van die songod.
Kan jy asb. vir al ons ander ook verduidelik presies WAAR in my artikel ek sê "laat jou groot doop en verwerp jou kinderdoop dan sal jy gered word" - sodat ons dit ook kan raaklees. Gaan vra dan jou geld terug by jou kerk, en as hulle vra hoekom, dan sê jy dat hulle veronderstel was om jou die verskil tussen saligmaking en heiligmaking te leer - wat hulle duidelik nie gedoen het nie.
Jy hoef nie te gaan soek vir voorbeelde van grootdoop in die okkult nie - ek het dit reeds jare gelede gedoen. Daar is baie: Van Sataniste, regdeur die Vrymesselaars tot die Animiste van Afrika doen dit in verskeie variasies.
Dit maak Gelowige Doop nie onbybels nie. Dit beteken ook nie dat die oorsprong van Gelowige Doop in die okkult lê nie. Die oorsprong daarvan lê gewoon in die Bybel - in wat Johannes die Doper en die Apostels gedoen het.
Kinderdoop is onbybels - soos my artikel hierbo aantoon. En omdat die oorsprong daarvan nie in die Bybel te vinde is nie, DAAROM gaan soek 'n mens WAAR mense dan aan hierdie idee gekom het. En jy vind die oorsprong in die okkult!
Jy's welkom om dit self na te vors. En laat die waarheid jou vrymaak!
"Ek verloën die Sakrament van die Kinderdoop en die doktrine wat sê dat die doop in die plek van die Ou Testamentiese besnydenis gekom het, en daarom aan kindertjies bedien moet word vóór bekering. Ek sny myself los van hierdie Rooms Katolieke, en dus antieke heidense wortels, wat manifesteer in die vorm van Son/Baal-aanbidding."
Net geloof in Jesus Christus kan mens red. Alles wat daarby gevoeg word is gewoon simboliese dinge wat moet dien tot versterking van geloof.
Dis jammer dat jy erens in die kerk seergekry het en nou dit jou lewenstaak sien om die kerk tot iets boos te verklaar.
1. Jy beantwoord nie my vraag nie:
Kan jy asb. vir al ons ander ook verduidelik presies WAAR in my artikel ek sê "laat jou groot doop en verwerp jou kinderdoop dan sal jy gered word" - sodat ons dit ook kan raaklees.
2. Jy verstaan duidelik steeds nie die verskil tussen saligmaking en heiligmaking nie. Gaan doen ten minste jou huiswerk in hierdie verband voordat jy weer windmeulens stormloop met jou begriplose stellings. Jou kerkleiers - vir wie jy so verdedig - was veronderstel om jou hierdie dinge te leer.
3. As jy jou huiswerk oor my bediening gedoen het, sou jy ook nie beweer het dat ek dit as my "lewenstaak sien om die kerk tot iets boos te verklaar" nie. Gaan na "downloads" toe in die navigation bar hierbo en laai 'n paar van my MP3-leringe af en hoor my hart.
4. Ek vermoed jou aanstoot tot my ontblotings van die institusiekerk se valshede lê in jou eie eie geloofs-onsekerheid. Beantwoord die volgende vrae eerlik aan jouself:
4.1 Het ek primêr 'n verhouding met die PERSOON Jesus, of het ek Primêr 'n verhouding met die Bybel?
4.2 Het ek primêr 'n verhouding met die PERSOON Jesus, of het ek primêr 'n verhouding met my kerk-institusie?
4.3 Watter dinge kenmerk my verhouding met die Persoon Jesus - Bybellees en kerkbywoning uitgesluit?
4.4 "Julle dwaal omdat julle nie die Skrif en ook nie die krag van God ken nie" (Mat. 22:29) Kan ek VIR ELKE JAAR wat ek al 'n Christen is NET EEN insident noem waar God se krag DEUR MY gemanifesteer het? Met sigbare, meetbare effek in andere?
Indien nie, dwaal ek, want dan ken ek nie God se krag nie.
4.5 Wat gaan met my geloof gebeur indien die Vader (soos in China) besluit om die institusiekerk deur vervolging te laat verdwyn?
4.6 Wat was die mees onlangse ding wat Jesus deur 'n rhema-woord vir my gesê het? Hoe lank gelede was dit? Dui dit op 'n goeie verhouding?
4.7 Watter bydrae lewer ek as medewerker van Christus om sy Koninkryk op aarde te laat kom? Maak ek enige merkbare duik in die Koninkryk van die Duisternis?
4.8 Wat van my geloof gaan bly staan as ek my besittings, dierbares en Bybel verloor? Hoe lyk Christenskap - sonder enige middele - dan?
As jy nie kristalhelder, duidelik omlynde antwoorde op bg. het nie, en die praktyk van jou lewe nie daarmee belyn is nie, stel ek voor dat jy eers jouself uitsorteer voordat jy andere probeer uitsorteer. Balk, splinter ... onthou?
Hierdie gaan dalk bietjie rof klink maar daar is nie n ander "WAY" om dit te se nie:
Eers toe ek besef baba(ongelowige) "doop" is n SONDE, eers toe beweeg ek nader aan God in my lewe.
Hoekom se ek so:
Efesiers 4:5 : "een Here, een geloof, een doop,"
Dink so daaraan, as jy eendag voor GOD se troon staan en jy se maar "my kerk" of "my Dr/Ds/Prof" of "my ouers" of "Eben Swart" :) het so gese, terwyl die Bybel dalk iets anders se, maak dit, dit reg?
NEE!!!
Want die HERE se:
Mattheus 10
37 Wie vader of moeder bo My liefhet, is My nie waardig nie; en wie seun of dogter bo
My liefhet, is My nie waardig nie.
38 En wie sy kruis nie neem en agter My volg nie, is My nie waardig nie.
Ek hou baie van Eben se teachings, maar my finale antwoord le altyd in die bybel.
1 Kron 28:9
En jy, my seun Salomo, ken die God van jou vader en dien Hom met ’n volkome hart en met ’n gewillige siel, want die HERE deursoek al die harte, en Hy verstaan elke versinsel van die gedagtes. As jy Hom soek, sal Hy Hom deur jou laat vind; maar as jy Hom verlaat, sal Hy jou vir altyd verstoot.
Na jare in die NG Kerk het die Gees my oortuig om hierdie stap van gehoorsaamheid te neem en my te laat doop. My hardkoppigheid om dit nie te doen nie was as gevolg van leering in die groot doop kerke met wie ek al saam gewerk het. Hulle probeer die doop in jou keel af druk en verkondig dat jy nie gered kan word indien jy nie gedoop is nie. Dit terwyl ek al met die Gees gedoop was en 'n gebedstaal ontvang het nog voor en gedoop is. In my doop water het ek die my Here op 'n nuwe manier ontmoet en in daardie oomblik Sy volkome vrede oor my gevoel. Die waarheid is dat die NG Kerk sy lidmate beroof van 'n wonderlike geestelike seening. Die Gees het dit duidelik vir my gewys dat dit verkeerd is om beloftes af te le waarin in trou aan 'n Kerk groep sweer en hulle leer as die enigste ware leer veklaar (bietjie arrogant as ek so mag se).
Nou word dit al hoe moeiliker om in hierdie kerk te bly, want hulle wyk al hoe meer af van die ware leer van die Woord en hou hulle besig met sinnelose stryd vrae. Vrae waaroor daar geen onduidelikheid in die Woord is nie. Eben is reg as hy se dat die teologiese redenasies mens nerens bring nie. Die NG Kerk is nie die enigste kerk wat vasgevang is in verkeerde teologie nie. Ons Charasmatiese vriende in nie ver agter in die ry nie. Die waarheid is dat enige iemand wat 'n redelike mate van Woord kennis het baie gou besef dat die hele kleindoop redenasie so vol gate soos 'n sif is. Lees vir 'n verandering self die Woord van God en hou op om alles op te eet wat ander mense se. Dit is ons enigste teenvoeter vir dwaling in hierdie laaste dae.
Meeste mense wat ek ken is oortuig van die groot doop, maar nog steeds laat hulle, hulle nie doop nie. Ek dink nog steeds die redes is die houvas wat die NG Kerk opo hulle het en vrees vir vervolging. Breek los en ervaar die seen van God in jou lewe
Met watter doop is jy gedoop? Glo jy soos jy geleer is of weet? Dit wat jy glo, is dit in die Bybel? (Ek verkies Ou Vertaling en KJV.) Ware Doop bepaal baie. Gaan stel self ondersoek in - bly maar by Jesus Christus in hierdie saak, want die misleiding is groot.
qadosh7@gmail.com
Ek wil saamstem met Edgar Lilje - jy gebruik jou eie redenasies, of jy is jammerlik mislei. Die geskiedenisfeite rondom die doop is doodgewone leuens wat jyself iewers uitgedink het - anders sal jy jou bronne aantoon.
Die fout wat jy maak oor die water wat satanies is: - in alle rituele: Isisrites, osiris-rites, mologdienste, Baäldienste ens, was bloed die bepalende faktor.
Wat van die bekeringsdoop wat in die Ou Testament al bedien is?
Jy werk ook sommer self meer verbonde uit as wat die Bybel ken - omdat jy met jou eie definisies werk en nie met God s'n nie. Daar is 'n baie groot verskil tussen 'n verbond wat God sluit en 'n instelling waarmee God die samelewing reël. Jy lê op dieselfde vlak as wat die Roomse lê met hulle sewe sakramente.
M.b.t. Marius se skrywes: jy skryf as volg: [2011-06-12 20:50:37] Eben Swart
"Marius, watter deel van punt 12 in my artikel hierbo verstaan jy nie?
Kan jy asb. vir al ons ander ook verduidelik presies WAAR in my artikel ek ..."
... en nou gaan ek op na die artikel toe en kopieer:
"Lord Jesus, I repent of the ignorance of my parents who had me baptised by sprinkling of water when I was a baby. I now realise that this was a grave sin before You, and that my Infant Baptism had forged a spiritual covenant and contract between me and a demonic entity. Please forgive me.
Lord Jesus, I accept your forgiveness, because Scripture tells us that if we repent of our sins, You will forgive us. (1 John 1:9)
Therefore, I now proclaim that I have died with Christ in the waters of baptism. Thus, I declare my covenant and spiritual contract with any demonic entity null and void, and renounce it in its entirety. I give back to this entity everything that I have ever received from him, and declare that in all eternity, I never want anything from him again.
I hereby declare a spiritual divorce between myself and this entity - for all time and eternity, in the Name of Jesus".
Jy "bid" tot 'n "Jesus" en vervloek die verbond wat deur die doop op jou bevestig was! Is dit sonde teen die Heilige Gees?
Gaan besoek gerus die webtuiste: http://www.enigstetroos.org/Kinderdoop_Grootdoop_Herdoop_LFloor.pdf
1. Jy's oneerlik. Wie dink jy bluf jy deur slegs 'n deel van my oorspronklike vraag te kopieer? My vraag aan Marius was waar in my artikel ek sê "laat jou groot doop en verwerp jou kinderdoop dan sal jy gered word"? En absoluut niks wat ek sê in die laaang gedeelte wat jy as "bewys" kopieer, koppel redding aan doop nie. Punt 12 van my artikel probeer verduidelik wat "kortkom" indien jy nie dmv gelowige doop gedoop is nie - en saligheid is nie eers naastenby op die radarskerm nie.
My vraag aan jou: Watter gedeelte van my oorspronklike vraag aan Marius verstaan jy nie?
2. Terloops: Die teologie wat jy aanhang, se teoloë krap sommer nog 'n swetterjoel ander "verbonde" ook uit die Bybel. Ek noem slegs vier. Ek dink nie jy verstaan mooi wat aangaan nie. Ek vermoed jy, soos Marius, moet jou geld by jou kerk gaan terugvra. Jou leiers het duidelik ook nie hul werk gedoen en jou geleer wat die verskil tussen saligmaking en heiligmaking is nie.
3. Dink jy werklik ek ken nie die kinderdoop-teologie en denkraamwerk nie? Ek weet presies wat en hoeveel dit verg om die geestelike sluier wat die kinderdoop oor die dopeling se geestelike oë trek te skeur: Die absoluut onverdiende genade van die Vader - en heelwat daarvan! Daardie sluier was vir 29 jaar oor my eie oë - ek was dáár. En ek weet wat dit verg om uit die kinderdoop-denkraamwerk los te breek en te ontsnap. Ek bid dat die Vader ook vir jou, net soos vir my, hierin BAIE genade sal laat toekom.
Ek wil eerder 'n stelling maak as 'n vraag vra. En dit is dat wanneer iemand die woord van die Here aanvaar as die waarheid moet mens mos die hele Woord as die waarheid aanvaar en nie net dit wat by jou lewens styl pas nie.
Ek was my hele lewe in die NG kerk en is ook as baba gedoop. Nooit geweet wat werklik die waarheid is nie. Tot so 4 jaar gelede wat ek begin vrae vra het en my dominee baie ongemaklik gemaak het. Hy wat my by die naam ken het op die ou end in 'n email gesê "haal my van jou adres lys af". Om aan te sluit by my stelling hier bo. Ons weet nou dat groot doop die regte ding is, want ons leer dit uit die bybel uit. Hoekom is die mense dan vandag so hardkoppig op ook te sê dat die Sabbat op 'n Saterdag (7de dag) is en nie op die Sondag nie. En dan wil mense mal gaan as jy hulle sê iemand wat oorlede is (met respek gesê) speel nie nou fiool in die hemel nie maar rus. Soos in daar is geen gees wat rondloop nie, niks van verskynings aan mense nie (wat terloops demone is). Mens kan nie met hulle praat nie of op enige manier kommunikeer nie.
Die bedoeling is nie om op tone te trap nie, mens kan nie net die helfte van die Woord aanvaar nie. Dis of alles of niks. Op die einde is daar net twee keuses. Satan is nie gepla dat jy hom kies nie, hy wil net nie hê jy moet die Here kies en Sy wil gehoorsaam nie.
Jy is baie vinnig om te oordeel!? (en dan verwys ek nie net na die afleiding dat ek oneerlik is nie). Wat dit betref – ek moes dalk die hele vraag gekopieer het... die feit dat dit weliswaar hier bo verskyn, tel nie, synde ek dan die hele laaang stuk wat jy bid gekopieer het... ek vra om verskoning vir hierdie tegniese misgissing.
Ek verstaan jou vraag 100% - en jy is reg: jy koppel nie redding aan doop nie.
Jy “raai” weliswaar watse teologie ek aanhang... en ek moet bieg, ons krap juis nie allerhande snaakse verbonde uit die Bybel uit nie!
Hoe op aarde kan die kinderdoop ‘n geestelike sluier oor die geestelike oë van die dopeling wees??!!
Jy antwoord dat “Punt 12 van my artikel probeer verduidelik wat "kortkom" indien jy nie dmv gelowige doop gedoop is nie” – dit is juis “ons” hele punt: julle voel dat daar iets kortkom (aan die genade van God), en daarom MOET jy tot bekering kom en MOET jy gedoop word – wanneer JY gereed is!
T.o.v die gebede van verloëning: in die Onse Vader (ek haal nie aan nie) word daar in eenvoudige taal sonde bely. In Lukas 18 – die fariseër en die tollenaar – lg slaan op sy bors en smeek “wees my, sondaar, genadig”. Is dit dus nodig om al hierdie vreemde goed by die letter, jota en tittel te verloën? Dit is duidelik dat jy baie navorsing hieroor gedoen het, en dus werklik ELKE boosheid by die naam verwerp en verloën. My vraag – sê nou net jy het iets vergeet of gemis?
Ek is jammer dat ek nie soos baie kommentare hier bo jou bediening prys en bedank nie. Ek moet egter my bydrae lewer t.o.v. dwalinge – ek het glad nie al die kennis om jou op die regte pad te help nie, en kan net bid dat die lig wat jy sien, die regte ene is.
Vrede.
Hoe hardkoppig kan 'RELIGION' jou nie maak nie??
Hoekom ? Ben, Help my reg...Ek glo dis wanneer wedergeboorte** plaasvind, dat jy "VERLIGTE Oë VAN DIE VERSTAND ONTVANG, EFES.1: (V11-23..SPESIFIEK V 18," dat die Skrif vir jou al hoe meer begin duideliker word, en begin jy te begryp wat hierdie en daardie vers/e beteken. '..Kyk alles het nuut geword..
2 Kor 5 :17. Ooo..! wat 'n wonderlike ondervinding** toe Jesus by my hartsdeur kom staan en klop het, en ek Hom ingenooi het, na Hy my op 'n 'gentle' manier oortuig het van my sondetoestand en verlorenheid. EK WáS NOOIT WEER DIESELFDE DAARNA, EN KON NIE, NOG NOOIT TOT VANDAG, GENOEG KRY UIT EN VAN GOD SE WOORD NIE! NR.1 - "DIE DOOP*" = DIE DOOP VAN DIE GELOWIGES : HAND 2:41/42. * MAT.21:25 KJV/ Spirit Filled Life Bible = Baptisma/Baptizo..PLEASE READ..LORD PLEASE OPEN THE EYES "OF THE UNCIRCUMCISED HEARTS' IN JESUS'NAME! THAT YOUR NAME MAY BE GLORIFIED! AMEN! (2 KINGS 6: (16 - 23). 2. DOOP - Mat. 3:13 - 16..En nadat Jesus gedoop was, het hy dadelik uit die water opgeklim..Hand 8.36 - 39..'en toe hulle uit die water opklim(38/39). Was Jesus 'besprinkel?' Was die hofdienaar 'besprinke?' My ma het altyd vir my gevra om die wasgoed af te haal van die wasgoed lyn and daarna te 'sprinkel.' want sy wil daarna stryk???
Eben, ek het baie respek vir jou en hoe jy met mense werk, goeie werk.
Groete
jy hoef nie n datum of bewuste belydenis in Jesus te maak nie en ook nie jou deur na jou hart oop te maak sodat God in jou hart kom woon nie waar of onwaar
n ds het dit vir my gese toe se ek hy lieg
1. Hy berei die harte voor om elke gedagte gevange te neem tot gehoorsaamheid aan Jesus Christus(2Kor10:4-5). Met Christus Jesus se gesindheid:(Matt5:44) Met die regte gesindheid sal mense nie aanstoot neem vir Jesus se OPDRAG in Matt28:19 nie.Die "pakket" ter harte neem in Mark16:16 en in Joh3:5, begryp hoe groot SY genade vir JOU is.
2. God verhard mense se harte sodat hulle nie die waarheid en dit wat reg is wil glo nie. Dit sluit valse gelowe in.
Joh 12:37:40 "En alhoewel Hy so baie tekens voor hulle gedoen het,het hulle nie in Hom geglo nie;sodat die woord van die profeet Jesaja vervul sou word wat hy gesê het: Here,wie het ons prediking geglo,en aan wie is die arm van die Here geopenbaar?Daarom kon hulle nie glo nie,omdat Jesaja ook gesê het: Hy het hulle oë verblind en hulle hart verhard,sodat hulle nie met die oë sou sien en met die hart verstaan en hulle bekeer en EK hulle genees nie."
That my dear friend is how simply I live my Faith - Infant Baptism? Believers Baptism? Virgin Birth? immaterial.
http://www.bybelkennis.co.za/Algemene-Artikels-Bybelse-Temas-en-Sake/Die-Doop-van-Kinders.html
http://www.gemeentes.co.za/Pdf/Die%20doop%20as%20genade-teken%20herwin.pdf
As sure as we needn't complicate matters in Christianity, we also shouldn't oversimplify them.
Else we could also say: Jesus? Buddha? Krishna? Immaterial.
Adverteer jy die kinderdoop?
Dis belangrik om die tipes in die Skrif vanaf Genesis 1 tot Openbaring 22 te verstaan, anders gaan ons kerklike padkaarte ons geestelik laat verongeluk. 'n Kortpad manier om tipes te verduidelik is dat die natuurlike altyd die geestelike tipifiseer(The natural always types the Spiritual) op duisende maniere.
Bv., i.t.v. die doop: die aarde is alreeds gedoop met die vloed, gewas in die bloed deur Jesus Christus se Bloed waar daarop geval het tydens Sy dood aan die houtpaal op Golgota, en dit wag vir die "Doping met die Heilge Gees"(vuur is weer 'n tipe van die Heile Gees) wanneer dit verbrand gaan word en vernuwe/herstel gaan word. Presies die tipe van natuurlike geboorte nl.: waterbeek, bloed, lewe(Gees).
Dit is weereens verder soos "Justification, Sanctification, and baptism with the Holy Spirit". Sien, alles tipes. Of soos Justification=Luther se kerk-eeu, Sanctification is Wesley se kerk-eeu, Baptism with Holy Spirit die Pentecostal kerk-eeu, en dan laastens alles saam, die Brides age( nog 'n eina...!!!)Dus, as jy nie REG gedoop is nie, ek paat nie van "sprinkling", pouring " en al die ander uitvindsels nie, mis mens uit op die Goddelike patroon van Genesis af. Nou, vir die mense wat leer dat die Ou Testament nie meer werk en ter sprake is nie, wel, geen wonder ons verstaan nie die Nuwe Testament en is totaal "confused" nie. Hoe kan jy Openbaring verstaan as jy nie eers Genesis of die Ou Testament verstaan nie....
Verder, ek gooi'n klippie in die bos, want met die "Groot doop" is daar net so groot misleiding.Ja, "Groot" Doop.Eina....Ja, dis waar. Ek is self "Groot" gedoop. Die vraag is nou weer: wat is die regte GROOT DOOP volgens die Skrif? Maar kom ons klim eers die trappie hierbo en dink aan die tipes.
Kort-om, ongeag ons ou mensies se sienings hieromtrent, God gaan net Sy Woord voor Hom herken/erken Eendag, en geen eiegemaakte redenasies gaan die vuur deurstaan nie.As jy nie REG GROOT GEDOOP is nie, sleep jy nog 'n lyk saam met jou, want jy's nie heeltmaal begrawe nie.Die "infant sprinkling" is nie eers ter sprake nie.
Met liefde, ter stigting, nie ter verdediging of onmin nie. Ons leer mos maar almal.
Gooi nou maar die klippe. Koes Eben!!
Johann Schlebusch
dit is waar wat Eben hier geskryf het, en dis skriftelik.
en ook wil ek net byvoeg as ek mag, Mat 16 het Jesus vir Petrus die sleutels van die koningkryk gegee. Waar het Pertus daardie sleutels gebruik?
In Handelinge 2:36 toe hulle vir Petrus en die disipels vra
hoe hulle gered kan word.
Petrus antword: " bekeer jou een laat jou doop in die naam van Jesus Christus... en jy sal die gawe va die heilige Gees onvang".
Waarvan kan 'n kind homself bekeer, of hoe kan 'n baba bekeer?
En probeer biki jou beskuit besprinkel met koffie, en se vir my jy het dit gedoop!
Ook in Handelinge 17 of 19 praat Paulus met gelowiges, en vertel vir hulle van die heilige gees.
Toe hulle se hulle weet nie van die heilige gees nie, vra Paulus vir hulle hoe hulle gedoop was, en hulle se dat hulle in die doop va Johannes gedoop is.
Nou, as die doop en die manier hoe jy gedoop moet wees nie so belangrik is nie, hoekom het Paulus toe vir daardie mense gese om oor gedoop te word in die naam van Jesus Christus?
Laat los ons eie idees en volg die skrif in eenvoud, soos God dit gese het.
groete
Francois
Ons is vir lank mislei en baie gaan vir lank nog mislei word.
Die vraag is super eenvoudig: Waar in die Bybel staan dat babas gedoop moet word.
BAIE dankie vir jou navorsing en guts om op te staan teen die duisternis en bose.
Mag jy en jou familie ons Vader se seen en beskerming genied.
Jy moet die teks volledig aanhaal, broer! Jesus sê ons moet dissipels maak, hulle doop en hulle leer om alles te onderhou WAT JESUS ONS GELEER HET - NIE om alles te onderhou wat MOSES ons geleer het nie. Jesus het NIE sy dissipels geleer wat Moses geleer het nie. Daar is nie 1 voorbeeld in die ganse Bybel waar Jesus 'n Torahgroep met sy dissipels hou nie!
Die voordeel wanneer hierdie "seerkry" terwille van die woord in 'n kerk gebeur. Jy vrae vrae wat jy andersins aanvaar het as reg en dit moet so wees want dit is, was so vir die laste hoeveel jaar.
Ek en my gesin het ook seergekry in 'n kerk. Ons het sommer maar gegaan rebel of te nie. Soos jy se as jy die verantwoordlikheid opneem vir jou eie groei in Christus, dan leer jy baie meer vinniger en nou ja niemand sal jou anders oortuig nie...nie eers met die dood nie.
Die Here laat alles tengoede mee werk vir die wat Hom lief het....en wat my opgewonde maak is dat wanneer ek stukke soos die lees dan weet ek God is vandag en tot in alle ewigheid dieselfde, want Hy praat uit een mond uit vir die wat wil hoor.
LIKE!LIKE!LIKE!
Is hierdie artikel nie dalk in Afrikaans beskikbaar nie? Ek sal dit baie graag aan familielede wil gee, maar die Engels sal nie werk nie. As dit nie beskikbaar is nie, sal ek dit self vertaal.
Groete uit Pretoria
Ongelukkig het ek hom net in Engels geskryf.
Jy's egter welkom om die Afrikaanse "Ware Wortels" DVD-reeks aan te skaf waarin die doop BAIE vollediger behandel word as hier. Kyk onder "DVDs" in die navigation bar links bo op hierdie blad.
Dankie vir jou kommentaar - dit word waardeer!
Ivm jou opmerking oor die Naam Jesus en die leuens wat daaroor verkondig word deur die Hebreeuse Wortels-beweging, lees gerus ook ons artikel oor die Hebreeuse Wortels. Ek spreek dié leuen spesifiek daarin aan.
AS jy op die ouderdom van 26jr in n ongeluk sou sterf,waar dink jy sou jy gewees het?
Ek het op ouderdom 12 in my kinderlike eenvoud tot bekering gekom en vir Jesus aangeneem. Met Sy genade het ek sedertdien nooit uit Sy hande geglip nie - so op 26 sou ek beslis by Hom gewees het.
Waar sou JY gewees het, Org?
Wat is die relevansie van jou vraag tot die artikel?
Dankie jou antwoord is die kern van ons geloof. As ons soos n kind kan oorgee is Sy genade genoeg om ons te dra, selfs al was ek as n kind gedoop
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